Sharon:
A lot of my clients understand the importance of taking time out from work to make decisions to recalibrate.
But oftentimes, they have a difficult time doing that, because there’s never really a right time to leave work. The 4-Step System that I’ve developed for coaching Executive Women addresses this topic, and other issues important to women leaders.
I thought it would be useful for us to talk to someone who has real life experience making the decision to go on sabbatical and has an insight to share with us.
I’m going to introduce my guest, Jacqueline Menzel, who likes to be called Jackie. Welcome to the podcast, Jackie.
Jackie:
Thank you, Sharon. Pleasure to be here.
Sharon:
I’m going to read a little bit of your bio so my listeners have an idea of who you are.
Jackie was born and raised in East Germany. In 1989, she decided to flee East Germany, and become the master of her own destiny with living and working in Canada and in the Netherlands.
For several years, her mindset grew into a multicultural, open-minded, several-language speaking person.
With her career spanning years in sales in the IT industry, her impressive journey and sales enablement began when she realized how much she knew about selling and how important it is to foster customer happiness.
And how by working with all revenue teams, she could close the gap between sales strategies and execution.
Her passion sits with sharing knowledge and developing young talent. Jackie shines when she’s a speaker and a facilitator, and she loves traveling in the arts.
I also know that you love being in nature as well. Isn’t that true, Jackie?
Jackie: Yes, absolutely!
Sharon:
So, we’re going to dive right into the questions. Let’s start with the obvious one. What drove your decision to go on sabbatical?
Jackie:
That the answer can be very long. But in short, I just needed fresh air. I was born in East Germany. That means my career started at the age of 16.
Given the situation that my parents were not engaged in any political party, I had a full stop after I finished my school and couldn’t pursue any advanced education in Germany.
I couldn’t go to study because I had these limitations. So right from the age of 16, I started working, and I’ve been working ever since.
It’s nice to be in full employment for most of your life. But when you come to 35 years, you just realized, oh, man, it has been a long, long time. And then you know there’s another 15 to go.
I felt, let’s call it an exhaustion, not so much about my job. But like, in general, I just felt the usual question you would ask yourself around 50 —is that’s it?
I just realized, I needed fresh air, I had to take a break after working hard for so long.
Sharon:
Was wellness more part of the focus of your decision? Or was it more about rethinking your career or re strategizing your career?
Jackie:
When I looked at my situation last year, I just realized, if I keep going, I’m potentially running into burnout. And, burnout is real!
When you are strong enough to realize that you are running into it, and you have the opportunity to slow down, you should do it. So that was my main decision.
When I started my sabbatical, I started to have a look at what is it that I want to do for the next 15 years.
It basically became a decision from a need to look after my health. I needed to take a break. But I also wanted to recalibrate where I am today where I want to go.
Sharon:
How did you prepare for your sabbatical?
Jackie:
Not much. The only preparation I really did is calculate my financial situation. How long can I afford? Or can I afford it?
Obviously, being in Germany, there’s a lot of regulations you need to follow. I knew my first month for sure would be in Cape Town, which became the city of my heart. So, I didn’t prepare a lot, really.
Sharon:
So, when you went on sabbatical, you actually left the country where you live and you went to South Africa. What was the reason?
Jackie:
There were two reasons. First of all, I got stuck in Cape Town nearly two years ago with COVID and I fell in love with the city. So that’s point number one.
Point number two, it was January, being in Europe, I decided I was going to follow the sun, since it was the middle of summer in South Africa.
But, I think, when you go on a sabbatical, doesn’t matter where you travel, but you have to travel, you need to change perspective, to be with yourself, and have the openness and the inspiration from outside other than your own home country.
Let’s be honest, when you take a break, and you stay home, it’s nice. But you’re busier with doing things around your house, like sorting papers, going through your wardrobe, meeting friends. It’s relaxing, but not as relaxing as stepping out of your life.
Sharon:
I liked the way you say that stepping out of your life that you had a complete change of scenery, which must have been restorative, because you removed yourself from your normal environment.
Jackie:
It’s interesting being in Cape Town is so inspirational because it’s so different. It’s just so different from our Western European life. And I think that is something you either are scared of or you embrace.
Sharon:
What were the first days like for you when you were on sabbatical?
Jackie:
I arrived there on a Monday morning. On the first weekend, I broke out into tears because I locked myself out of the house I rented.
Why did I do this? Because I tried to fit so much into my first week. I drove around, I went to see friends, I did everything. I almost felt like I need to breath the city in but I needed to do things to relax myself.
It ended up that I locked myself out of the house and I had no clue to get back in. And I can tell you I grew with that experience. Lesson learned here definitely is to follow your body, right? Just my body told me because I was standing outside of my door and literally broke out into tears. And that doesn’t often happen to me very often.
Sharon:
That’s interesting, Jackie. It seems like you took your hectic pace from working in Germany, and you just sort of transported it, at least in the early days if your sabbatical to South Africa.
Jackie:
I did, I did. And that’s the human nature. And when you when you think about you going on holiday, either you go on, let’s say a full inclusive beach holiday and you just hang out by the pool and do nothing.
Or people go hiking and they go on city trips and sightseeing. But in essence, what you need when you really step out of your job, because you feel you need to slow down —is really slow down.
It’s hard to feel the sweetness of doing nothing. It doesn’t taste sweet in the beginning, because you need to deal with yourself. And the worst part is you have so much time and the others (friends) don’t.
You need to do things on your own. I’m good at that. But in reality, it’s even harder when you want to fill the time with great moments.
Sharon:
You make a really good point, Jackie. I also took a decision to go on sabbatical a few years ago. My circumstances were a bit different because I had a husband and a teenage son at home
The point that you make about really being able to step away, I had to be very, very deliberate in carving out time to be separated from them.
Luckily, I also live in a city where there’s a lot of green space, and the country has a lot of green space.
I took a week and I went hiking in the mountains, just so that I could have silence. I honestly thought that I would listen to audiobooks and listen to music. And I never touch that stuff!
I was just so happy to be surrounded by nothing. You know how they say the silence is deafening. That’s exactly what it was. I had my meals alone. I walked all day seven, eight hours a day.
It was something that I really needed, but I didn’t know I needed it. I also worked with a coach to help me work through some of my decision making around taking that huge step because it was a really huge step for me as well.
Jackie:
You just raised an important point. Understanding that you’re at a point where you need a break. And really realizing that you need a break is are two different things. Right?
I had a feeling that I needed a break but I wasn’t quite sure? Was it me? Was it menopause? The advice I would give, go and take a coach to sort your life. Put it into a different perspective.
You said something very nice —like you needed to silence. I think everybody who’s listening to this podcast right now will feel the strong meaning of the word silence. I now understand why people go on retreats, and are not allowed to talk.
People go to monasteries , or to go to the desert. I’m actually going to do this November. I’m going to go to the desert to do exactly that. To really only hear myself my inner voice talking.
I’m not a person who meditates but I appreciate people meditating. Because you feel the silence so those thoughts come and go.
Being grounded, is the first big task you need to do. And you can’t do it without coaching. Definitely not. Especially when you like you in a family setting.
I live on my own, it makes things easier, leaving just your partner back is easier than leaving, leaving a family back home.
Sharon:
When I opened up the podcast, I mentioned that this is a topic that comes up with a lot of my coaching clients is —“I need silence”, “I need to step away”, “I don’t have a moment to think”.
We spend time working through that and trying to create a situation — because each woman’s situation is so unique, there is no cookie cutter recipe for it.
Everyone has to work within their comfort zone, within their means, and within their personal situation to try to create that silent space for themselves.
Sometimes you need a thinking partner to get there. It’s not that easy to do it yourself, particularly when you’re on this hamster wheel working 15 hours a day and checking emails on the weekends. It’s not an easy thing to then say I’m taking a break.
Tell me about change. How has this experience changed you?
I know that you and I had a call once when you were in South Africa. And you sounded so light and so fresh. The whole way that we communicated with one another was so different from how we had spoken with one another in the past.
What did you recognize in yourself that changed over the period of your intentional separation from work, and in devoting time to yourself
Jackie:
The change continues to happen. It happened from day one, where you stand there, and you start crying and realize, okay, you need to change?
You definitely have to look at your life, your circumstances. I wanted to learn new things. And when you working, you always have an excuse to not find a time.
So, I learned how to do poetry. I went to a few presentations in South Africa, where a gentleman supports young entrepreneur and shared my advice.
I also went back to routines, like doing a little bit more sports. I’m not a sporty person. I hate sports, to be honest. But I did a lot of sports I ate so healthy. Obviously, it’s easier in South Africa, because the food is just fresher.
I slept a lot. That’s definitely a key. Some people don’t need a lot of sleep, but I do. So, one of the lessons I definitely want to share with people —if you’re tired, go take a nap. Even though if it’s during the day, go take a nap.
I look at what you just described as the hamster wheel a little bit different. You allow yourself to get into that hamster wheel, right? You jump right into it. It’s your decision. Do you want to be kicked out? Or do you want to keep running and the faster you run, the faster the wheel spins?
It’s your own decision? Or do you decide to go slow? Can you allow that to happen? And if you feel like you wanted to slower and there’s a faster hamster, which entered wheel with you and you’ve just been thrown out? Accept it. Just let it happen.
The biggest change really is embracing whatever comes and I’m a firm believer in everything that happens to you in life happens for a reason. I know that sounds very esoteric, but things will just fall into place. It’s definitely something I believe in ever since I stepped away from my work.
Sharon:
I can share a bit about my experience. When I went on sabbatical, I decided that that would be my time for saying yes. Because I discovered when I was working, I said no to everything that was not work.
It starts to limit your life and you don’t realize it. But if you start to really take an inventory, which I was able to do, I discovered that I missed so many opportunities for fun, for opportunities to connect.
Not everything in our lives has to do with advancing our careers, if you really want to live wholly and fully.
That period was about eight months of saying yes to things, and I’ll tell you, I did things, that I never in a million years thought I would be doing —picking wine grapes in Tuscany, taking dance lessons. It just nothing that was earth shattering, but things that I simply never managed to carve out the time to do.
And like you said, we own our decisions. We enter into the situations that we’re in. And then we decide how much we’re going to take on our shoulders. And we somehow lose sight of that. It’s about trying to claw back some of your control, isn’t it?
Jackie:
You decided to do something that’s fun for you. And I think that’s also where you need help. To understand, what is it that you want? What is fun for you? Let’s say you have a week of free time? What do you want to do? What do you need?
And that’s where coaching like people like you and other coaches come into play, right? To help you to look at yourself from an outside perspective and see your own desires.
I think that’s probably the hardest thing to understand —what is it that I really want to do? And it also played a big role in my decision to step out. It’s a risk I took.
But it’s worth well, because giving you the opportunity to look at your life. And ask yourself what else do you want to do?
Sharon:
There’s this saying about when we reach the end of our lives, no one is going to take an inventory and say, I should have worked more. We’ll take an inventory and say, you know, I should have spent more time with my loved ones or loving myself and enjoying myself.
We certainly shouldn’t be waiting until the end of the horizon to be making those decisions to do that.
I was with a coaching client, an American executive. She told me, she doesn’t even know what she likes to do anymore. Because it’s been such a long time since she actually took time and devoted it to herself.
She’s the mother of two very accomplished, by all measures and successful in every single dimension of her life. But she realizes that she doesn’t know herself anymore. She’s also started working young and has reached the juncture where she doesn’t know how she even wants to spend time if she had the time to spend.
And that does take some somebody to help guide you along and ask some of the right questions and help you uncover where you’re where your interests lie.
At some point, I imagine you will return to work. What are you most looking forward to in your professional future?
Jackie:
I think I realized I really love sales enablement and sharing knowledge. I’m, pretty sure I’m then good at what I do. But what I don’t want to do anymore is saying yes to everything. But saying more “No”.
I’ll carefully select my next employer or might even going solo. I’m still in the process of deciding what I want to do. For sure what I’m going to do is incorporate more solid breaks in my next couple of years, and also slowly prepare for the time when I’ll retire.
I’m looking forward to that and thinking about things I can do when I’m retiring or return to the things I used to do. If there’s something really burning inside of me, like you said —dance lessons. It just resonated with me.
My last dance lessons were like 100 years ago. It would be great to just be on the dance floor, not caring about anybody.
If you uncovered is something you really want to do now, do it now. And if you feel like okay, I want to have a lot of time for it, save it for when you have more time. Maybe write a bucket list of what is it you want?
Before I went away, I had a big flip chart and that just wrote down everything I wanted. It was a hard process. It’s almost like design thinking? What has high priority? What makes you happy today? And what can make you happy in the long run?
So going back to your question, I don’t know yet. I have a couple of weeks, even hopefully months to go on my sabbatical. And as I said earlier, things will fall into place. For sure. I’m certain of it.
Sharon:
I know that you are going to land someplace where people will be so happy to have you. You talked about saying no, my last podcast is exactly about that topic. No, is a complete sentence!
When you say no, it really opens up your world for other opportunities. Because you can say yes to the things that are really important to you.
We’re coming to the end of our conversation, Jackie. You’re a wise woman, you’ve been around the block, you’ve lived on several continents, you’ve traveled the world, you know yourself. You also know what it means to be a corporate citizen.
You have so much context and so much experience. What words of wisdom could you give to my clients? My clients are women IT executives, who may be sitting on the fence about taking time off from work. Do you have any words of wisdom for them?
Jackie:
Definitely go find out what is it you want? Don’t really explore the question “do I need a break or not?” Everybody needs a break. If you feel you want to take a break, do it!
If you feel you need to prepare for it, go prepare it. If you feel you want to just jump into it, go jump into it. But be prepared to realize that you may make a few mistakes.
I had a good friend of mine when I posted my first article about going on a sabbatical saying I should embrace every single moment because it’s going to run by very fast.
But that’s life, right? Just go and take it. And yes, it has to do with finances. I guess people you are coaching, have a solid financial background. Invest that money today.
Don’t leave it on your bank account or in a savings account. Because investing in your health, in your happiness in your desires in a dancing lesson or hiking, it’s the best investment and return on investment is probably the highest you can get.
People who see me today, who haven’t seen for a year, tell me, “you look so different”, “you look happy”, “you’re shining”. This is probably the best reward you can get that people obviously see that sabbatical, or that time and break is good.
And last but not least, even if you only have the time for a couple of weeks or months, go take your holidays, and take them seriously, switch off your phone, tell the company you’re not available. Just make sure you have those breaks, because breaks are so important.
Sharon:
Thank you for those wise words. You’re right. The breaks that everybody is entitled to when they work _ we don’t take them as seriously as we should take them.
That’s probably the first baby step is being intentional about how you use your vacation, and how you use your holiday time.
That might give you a taste of what it could feel like if you decided to do something really bold for yourself, for your well-being, for your career, maybe even for your family. To take an extended break and have the headspace to think about what you really want for yourself.
Jackie, it’s really been great having you on my podcast. I appreciate it.
For all of my listeners. You can find me at my website, https://livingwhileleading.com/. I also have a podcast where episodes come out every Tuesday. I’m also quite active on LinkedIn. So, I look forward to connecting with all of you.
Please share this episode with someone who you think needs a little bit of encouragement to take some time and devote to herself into her well-being. And please give me a 5-star review on whatever podcast app you’re using.
Thank you so much for listening.
